Master Sergeant Carla Loy Song became a member of the West Point Band in 2007. entitled to the salute.". I highly doubt any West Point graduate will magically "see the light" after reading my imput on this discussion. I was surprised at the gate when I was saluted by the gate personnel. single time. In the military, XO refers to a second-in-command officer, or more generally, an executive officer.The XO typically reports to the commanding officer, who also goes by the names the first lieutenant and the number one. No commission? But having learned this, it made me wonder when this would actually matter in any meaningful way. During my time in the regulars, I encountered a couple of West Point Grads who, in my opinion had amused contempt for enlisted personnel below the rank of E5. The rank of a cadet is for protocol issues alone such as where to stand in a receiving line or where to sit at a formal dinner. Your submission has been received. Regarding saluting courtesy in the cadet corps. but after I had earned my keep so to speak he spent a lot of time teaching and mentoring this Dot head and when I was commissioned he took time off from his civilian job to come to the commissioning ceremony to congratulate me. Something I wish I knew 50 years ago. Boy if it wasn't entertainment at its best. As that was a long time ago, my memories of the experience were that it was the best and the worst of both worlds. Great investment. Too many Cadets are treated like children by unprofessional NCOs who fail to realize that they are only alienating their future rather and or senior rather. As corny as this will sound, the feelings related in the film An Officer and a Gentleman at the end were pretty accurate. . We're also the one demographic that gives the socialist/communists nightmares because they know they can't take us head on in any manner so they go through the younger people to reach their aims. Thus, I suspect a warrant officer's wife is addressed a "wifady" (wife/lady.) That sounds like a fun and challenging job. The U.S. Military Academy at West Point's mission is "to educate, train, and inspire the Corps of Cadets so that each graduate is a commissioned leader of character committed to the values of Duty, Honor, Country and prepared for a career of professional excellence and service to the Nation as an officer in the United States Army." From the enlisted perspective, while drilling with my Guard unit, there was confusion as to where exactly Cadets fit in to the scheme of things. FOOLISH it is for there to be any antagonism between NCOs and cadets, or NCOs and lieutenants. Naval Facilities Command Expeditionary Warfare Center, n Region Security Engineer Naples, Italy Before assuming responsibility, Coffey was the command sergeant major for the 3rd Infantry Division at Fort Stewart, Georgia. Scotts writing focuses largely on veterans issues, but he is also a big proponent of Constitutional rights and has a deep interest in politics. *This post originally appeard The Havok Journal * U.S. Army photo by: Mike Strasser/ USMA Public Affairs The cadet never will outrank a sergeant first class, master sergeant first sergeant sergeant major etc. Or a sergeant major for that matter. Period. I was now an active duty Captain with a right shoulder patch ( a big deal in those days ) and a couple of combat medals on my chest ( not bragging but including because of the story ). Define "Duty", you know as opposed to "Education/Training". . Imagine that, good ol Top didnt read the entire regulation, only the part that suited his narrativeshocked. Life 101. of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service Private Industry, n Chief Readiness Flight Eielson AFB, AK NCOs are the backbone of the Army and run the Army day to day (as opposed to commanding it). Superior to a mere cunning, lazy enlisted man. I never saluted another LT after that as an LT. Scott welcomes story ideas and feedback on his articles, and can be reached athavokjournal@havokmedia.com. WO1s even as appointed Officers are subject to all provisions of the UCMJ even art 33. Future leader in some position in our AF. I was an enlisted man and my rank at the time of my discharge in the late Summer of 1989 was Sergeant E5. As SNCOs think of this as an opportunity to shape the Os of the future. My CTLT with D 1/47th IN (1983) was an amazing experience preparing me to enter an Army in transition, and the esprit de corps and commitment to duty extended from CPT Barber to every member of the command, even their temporary members (a USMA Cadet and me), with especially valuable membership from NCOs in the command. Master Sergeant Lane's professional affiliations include membership with the Audio Engineering Society and voting membership with The Recording Academy (Producers and Engineers Wing). If you think a fellow West Point graduate is a great leader, see how she/he behaves after having a soldier vaporized by an RPG in front of him. Shiver me timbers he pooped on the deck. MAJOR GENERAL MAXWELL D. TAYLOR Superintendent, U. S. Military Academy . United States Forces Iraq (USF-I), J-7, n Chief, Engineering Plans and Services Yuma, AZ I respected his rank and expertise, but I detested him otherwise. Staff Sergeant Noah D. Taylor of Columbus, Ohio, joined the West Point Band in May of 2015. I am an honorably discharged Veteran of the active Army. After graduating from high school, they both felt called to enlist, and became clerks. Providing innovative solutions and discoveries through international collaborations with leading academic departments, research centers, and industry. I can't speak for the Air Force, but the Navy certainly does. Born in Heidelberg, West Germany, of African American and Hispanic parents in a U.S. military family, she graduated from Oxon Hill High School in Maryland, where she ranked among the top-10 students in her class. The reason you would place cadets above enlisted in the rank chart is because they will be officers. So glad I longer serve. Your attitude will get you relegated to a Quonset hut in BFE. Cadet you are not a cadet when in you ng or reserve unit. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander. As a mom of a cadet thank you! We want to mold a new Officer to become a great leader we can always remember but there's a limit to what we're willing to do. I hope this sheds some light on things. He also volunteers with local community organizations such as Higher Ground Men's Group, Men of St. Joseph, and the Most Holy Trinity Catholic Choir. You are absolutely wrong. She earned a Bachelor of Fine Arts in graphic design from the School of Visual Arts in New York City. I wondered about it at the time and this reminded me of it, is this more of like a courtesy thing where Warrants dont salute each other and shake hands instead? I have to say that I got a little bit of vindication when I went back to obtain some records from my old guard unit. Mr. Mitchell is a licensed Professional Engineer and a Level III Certified Acquisitions Professional. Throughout his career as both an Airman and Civilian, he has served in numerous assignments at locations: n Chief, Public Works Fort Eustis, VA In fact, based on my experience there are some West Pointers out there who never learned that. Sometimes, XO is a way of calling the commander or a head of a department in the organization. I found myself going toe to toe with these junior NCOs and enlisted, but not to destroy their souls (as the NCO in me wanted to do so badly) but to talk to them and help them understand that if you treat these cadets like crap, it will be returned 10 fold in a year when they commission, hate NCOs, and are their raters. He graduated with a Master of Music in composition from Bowling Green State University and a Bachelor of Music in composition from the Capital University Conservatory of Music. As for me, while a SNCO would in general be qualified to succeed a LT as platoon leader, any such succession would need to be limited to a short term basis. The Cadet wr had wrote all of us NCOs that trained him, some. So let me get this straight a probably well connect cadet who memorize info given to them as well as staying nice and tidy, as yet to graduate or earn a degree yet some how thinks that they are officers. That just goes to show that the regular cadets get crapped on and they can't change it. Aviation Cadet training was 15 months. Sergeant Major Denver Dill is a member of the West Point Band and an instructor of American Politics at the United States Military Academy, West Point, New York. Corporal: Sergeant: Platoon Sergeant: Color sergeant: left sleeve only: First Sergeant: Regimental and Battalion Sergeant Major: Brigade Command Sergeant Major: Lieutenant: Color Lieutenant: Company Commander: Battalion Adjutant: Battalion . Long story short: Years of hands-on experience trumps reading an instruction manual, This applies in every situation and every single time. They're inchoate officers. CDT Vincent High marks! CSM Robert T. Craven hails from Swords, Louisiana and enlisted in the U.S. Army in March 1995. If cadets, during this valuable leadership experience, are not given the chance to act as lieutenants and acting platoon leaders, then the whole CLTC program should be scrapped. He has much humility and respect for all who serve and served so he will appreciate your words. *Back to the story: At first, I let things go and decided someone had to be tough on these kids, but after a while, I couldn't let it roll on. Enough of my rant! (Contracted ROTC cadets are MS III and MS IV, overwhelmingly and predominantly.) ok Cadet, go right ahead. Of course there is a certain type of officer who fails to get it. Almost, like her husband, an officer and a lady. I really wish I didn't have to speak this way about you kids but most of you did the West Point thing for power or prestige, both of which are useless to Infantrymen, we care less what college you went to, if you can't think on your feat when round crack by you then you get my men killed. Before anyone attacks me, I am a prior Army SSG who is now a MSIV Cadet (Active duty and Branched). Oops! Sergeant Major Jeremy Schlegel, from Hanover Township, Pennsylvania, joined the West Point Band in August of 2008. Combined Forces Special Operations Component Command, n Deputy Division Chief, Enduring Sites Division Baghdad, Iraq They clearly outrank privates and are often assigned to leadership roles, but they aren't yet commissioned. The Army has launched an investigation after the unmasking of a semi-anonymous Twitter account the command sergeant major of U.S. Military Academy, West Point, allegedly used to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump, an Army official confirmed to the Daily Caller. Sergeant Major Schlegel began his enlisted career in August of 2005. Read the regs CAREFULLY people, when you want to use them to make a point. But only a complete cadidiot would get his or her cadet rank confused with an NCOs authority and influence. Because according to the Army, they outrank me, sir.. Without these people, "How do you become "ELite"! I was recently in a conversation with a senior noncommissioned officer in an elite US Army unit, when the subject of CTLT came up. I was floored. Cadets were not entitled to receive salutes from enlisted personnel. One might argue that a cadet who is SMP, simultaneous membership program, would be regularly assigned. At that . By Command Sgt. She entered the military in March 1999 attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina where she was awarded the MOS 75B Personnel . Eight cadet-athletes were selected to leadership positions and will assume their duties Aug. 10. You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. It would be earned when I became the kind of Officer that he would be honored to serve as right hand to. I am a cadet and am military police and drill with them as well. Sorry, I wrote that on the go from a mobile device, and can't edit it. which makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets do, in fact, outrank Army NCOs. She graduated from Conway High School in 1989. It should be. The first three months were preflight training at Lackland AFB where we were taught basic military skills such as customs and courtesies, UCMJ, drill, Air Force history, parachute training, confidence course, and firearms training. Hooah!!! This does not mean they are to enact on that rank as authority has been given to the person in command of them. This article reminded me of something that raised a question for me after I received my commission and that had to do with LTs saluting each other. That one NCO who doesn't give a crap about you is the one you should be talking to. OK, fine. He is actually correct, SMP cadets serve in ARNG units in the rank of cadet. Are we really saying an NCO could not do that? Very interesting. The definition is enhanced further by stating Soldiers "present for duty." So there I was no shot, at my first unit on JBLM, WA as a 2LT and I thought that based on what I was taught that you salute all superior officers. It is the oldest of the five American service academies and . I have to admit that when he asked what I needed I probably got a little pleasure by responding: a cup of coffee. I too am an honorably discharged Army Vet from an Army family. A rescinding announcement is required if the temporary assumption of command is for an indefinite period. I always say Semper Fi or Airborne when I return salute. Secondly, just because of this outdated regulation (considering no cadets are assigned to any deployed units) requires no customs or courtesy obligation from enlisted soldiers or officers. They receive paygrade of ~E-5 however they hold a higher position. No matter what route an O receives his commission by, he will regard his SNCOs and NCOs who trained him with the utmost honor and respect. The garrison supports a base population of over 16,500 Soldiers, Civilians, Family Members, and Contractors as well as supporting over 40,000 retirees in the area. Anyway. AR 600-20 lists command structure. And get to know your PBO very well! Major Rusty A.. Still though, the cadet might be assigned to the unit based on the Modified Table of Organization and Equipment (MTO) to a non cadet billet. Required fields are marked *. It's virtually guaranteed there are at least one or two SNCO in a given company qualified to take a short term command of the company. No idea if it is being taught now at BNCOC or ANCOC. My NCOs treated me with respect while I was a midshipman, but taught me what it meant. Indeed, a cadet assigned as a visitor to a regular unit on active duty would not be under disciplinary sanctions by his training command and institution if s/he were under sanctions the cadet would be disqualified from visiting. sgm guevara's awards and decorations include the bronze star, meritorious service medal (2nd award), the army commendation medal (3rd award), the army achievement medal (4th award), the master parachutist badge, the ranger tab, the pathfinder badge, the combat infantryman badge, the expert infantryman badge, the air assault badge, the el salvador A CSM outranks a SPC, but you never see the latter salute the former. Does the cadet have offiCial orders? West Point welcomed Command Sargent Major Michael J. Coffey as the 21st U.S. Military Academy senior enlisted leader during an assumption of responsibility ceremony Monday, August 17, 2020. 133. They aren't commissioned yet, and as pointed out above, they are considered equivalent to an E-5. DESCRIPTION Twin sisters Cathy and Charlie Kahl enlisted in the Women's Army Corps together, and managed to be stationed together throughout much of their career until they both retired as Command Sergeants Major. This is more or less the Armys summer intern program, where young future officers get hands-on experience as a kind of third lieutenant, under the tutelage of a commissioned officer for three or four weeks. Interestingly, when a graduating cadet received his commission, (there were no females in the cadet corps in those days), his commission was backdated 15 months to the date he entered the cadet program, giving him a lead on promotion to first lieutenant. It can be a very valuable and rewarding experience if done right and an unfortunate waste of time for the CDT and unit if its not. Some points I wanted to make sure I hit are: -No, you don't have to call them sir/ma'am or salute them, but you absolutely should show them the respect you would like to receive. A little background: I received my commission as a 2LT in May 1987 after spending two years in the SMP where I was enrolled as a senior ROTC Cadet (MSIII and MSIV) while serving simultaneously in a National Guard Unit. 2-8. Not only do NCO's get shit on by their LT's but sometimes the LT is getting shit on by his Company Commander. Cadets salute one another and it is initiated according to cadet rank. Other notable assignments include working within the 2/320th Field Artillery Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, serving as the Artillery Command Sergeant Major, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Georgia, and serving as the Corps G-3 Fires Sergeant Major XVIII Airborne Corps Headquarters at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. How dare enlisted swine preside over a command position? The cadet would still have to be "Regularly Assigned". Let me explain: Its summertime, and for many cadets in the Armys ROTC programs and at West Point, that means Cadet Troop Leader Training or CTLT. We promise not to send you more than one email a week! Army command policy is clear the definition of terms. Cadet Physical Program requirements still remain a priority April 1, 2020. Garrison Command Sergeant Major :: West Point U.S. Army Garrison West Point America's Oldest U.S. Army Garrison & Home to the United States Military Academy Command Sgt. Most recently, CSM Craven was the Command Sergeant Major for the 5th Security Force Assistance Brigade (SFAB) at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington. Upon completion of preflight we went to flight school. 2LT Eisenhower, he was a 6' 3" tall man who was assigned to our platoon in 1992. Even after more than twenty years in uniform, it still surprises me what I dont know about my own profession, and what I still have to learn from my NCOs. Outside of authorized developmental training events such as CTLT, no NCO is going to allow a cadet to swoop in and take charge of his platoon, squad, or section. I agree totally with enlisted not saluting a cadet. Coming straight out of a college (any college) prepares you for exactly nothing. Salute were means of communication. Command Sergeant Major Michel R. Fraser was born in Wilmington, North Carolina and raised in Conway, South Carolina. She received a Bachelor of Music Education from Indiana University, where she studied both trumpet and voice. original name United States Military Academy at West Point insignia cadets sleeve rank and duty insignia. Somebody at USMA needs to ensure cadets are informed about their precedence in the order of ranks and teach them that while they are at AOT/CLTC, etc. They aren't commissioned though, depending on the service, they are somewhere around a W1. Oh please. Good Grunts care less for their next promotion beyond making sure our records are correct. A straight up lie from a boy who thinks book smarts makes him am expert in my mos. Directorate of Public Works, n Director, RDT&E Division Port Hueneme, CA And keep your mouth open and eyes covered with your hands when it or any other explosion goes off near you. Your comment reeks of arrogance. The Air Force Aviation Cadet program was fazed out during the mid 1960's as the Air Force Academy became the primary source of flight rated officers. Be safe out there, use the "recon by fire" method if probing a road and drop to the ground when a frag is near you, the explosion goes up and away. I was assigned to the 25th ID in 1972. Staff Sergeant Chrissy Rivers joined the West Point Band in September of 2010. This regulation shows that cadets rank after commissioned and warrant officers, but before NCOs. I respect them all but I just wonder what makes them "Elite" as you say? Word of advice, if you want to write an op-Ed then you should submit it for publication. My Drill Sargeant after our last 12 mile road, reminded all of us that until the graduation ceremony and recite the enlistment oath only the will we officially be soldiers. Here's my advise that will serve you well; always remember this; ASSUMPTIONS ARE THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCK UPS! 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