As a professional contractor, I generally just purchase road base, gravel, and compact it for my foundation. Or, just fill the gap with road base gravel. Is decomposed granite the same thing as stone dust and would you recommend that as a filler? You can use stone dust in wider joints.Ive done so, once or twice and whereas I wasnt super happy about the way it looked, it did end up functioning well. The stuff I used came in 5 gallon buckets. Resulted in ugly haze. I just put down some pea gravel around my fire pit area and now anytime someone walks on it the gravel gets into the mulch and all over. We decided on pea gravel as a less cost interim before we could afford brick or slate for our back patio area. Screenings are not the same as polymeric sand. My concern is two fold. I had a flagstone patio laid 2 years ago. Tamp the soila hand tamper that you buy at the hardware store will work just fine, a plate compactor will spare you the strain (rob you of a good work-out.Ill be honest, a very good work-out. Thanks, I added your sculpture to my Facebook timeline nice work! This mix is damp enough that it clumps together without needing to be smooshed together with the trowelbut just barely: https://www.devineescapes.com/replacing-the-cement-between-flagstones/. There are many methods of stabilizing pea gravel. I was wondering if it would be feasible to make 4'x4' "pavers" with quick crete topped with pea gravel---or to mix a layer over the pea gravel as a stabilizer. - M.K. But sand wont help and if you do not want to do it proper to begin withthen what you already have is probably fine. Perfect for use in between flagstones. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. I have been thinking of taking the pressure washer and blasting out all the soil, and replacing it with screening i think it will look better, and am hoping it will stay clean longer. Anything with d-limonene. This is a torch that is used to weld and cut steela blow torch. Or falling matter from nearby trees can help cause that. My new mason installed flagstone using polymeric sand. Scroll down to the heading that says How to install stone dust in between your flagstones. Not a good look. Flagstone: what to use, sand, cement, or gravel? Id suggest just using a few handfuls of gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material too large to simply wash out. Only now did I realize that I neglect to answer. One of those might be ochre stone. Stone dust is usually available in whatever colors if road base type gravel are quarried in your area. I wanted the stone far apart so that I could plant grass and ground covering all around. Common does not mean good. Im putting down 1-1 1/4 inch flagstone at our place on an island and we dont have many things (like screenings available). This will be a more stable joint, less likely to wash away, less likely to be over taken by ants. Scroll half-way down on this link and find the section with the heading How to install stone dust in between your flagstones Sometimes people overfill their joints to begin with, then wonder why they have material spilling out onto the patioaim to have your flagstone joints filled to about an 8th of an inch lower than the top of your flagstones. I sent him your article about using quarry dust. To decrease the gravel carried away by any runoff, you can also add drainage trenches to your pea gravel installation. Or sand, if need be. If you do this, please keep me updated, let me know how it works. Leave the hammer drill in the shed. But it still does not offer up any real benefit. Thank you for taking the time to post this for the world to see. I noticed almost the same effect/thing on the dirt in the garden. If you take your time with repeated sweepings and hosings, then, when rain does come, the decomposed granite will be set into the joints already and any loose bits will have already come loose. Theres some things I dont know here.how long ago were the mortar joints done? Maybe lay 2 inches and tamp that, lay the top layer and leave that loose. Spot on! The flagstones, having not perfectly flat surfaces, means that if you fill the joints all the way flush with the tops of the flagstones, then that joint material will spill out. We have an existing flagstone patio which was built on a layer of crushed limestone with the same in between the flagstones. AM I missing anything? Ive never seen any ratio of cement to stone dust/sand that works. Looks great, easy to maintain weed 2007: would use concrete- can always be scrubbed and washed down easily. It depends on where you live. One thing I forgot to ask originally was the issue of freeze-thaw cycle and the potential for the limestone to hold water and then potentially crack the flagstone. Theres white screeningswhich is more a cream/off white color. Theres household cleaners out there, they sell them at the big box stores, probably grocery stores too maybe idk, but its a citrus extract and you have to be careful when cleaning with it because it dissolves some types of plastic. Thanks Im advance for your help. Thats limestone screenings. If you used screenings as both the leveling agent and as the joint filler, this is no big deal. Hammer and chisel and/or angle grinder may be needed.but for a dry laid patio just with mortar in the joints, a flathead screwdriver will often be all that you need. . I'm excited because I can do a number of project now. and it will still look natural. The gaps range from 1/4 1 between stones. Help! Each unit of our concrete block is approximately 3,000 lb in weight and 5' x 2'-5" x 2'-6" in dimensions. Devin-Way to go! One web site even suggests a 1/3 dry portland cement/breeze mix, to then be gently soaked with water that would harden up. Sorry for the delayed responseIve been busy finishing up with the years work before the winter sets in. Just finished laying a patio of large natural stone2-4 thick in a shaded area. Weed and ant proof. Do you think this woudl be a better option than concrete with our climate? Add another substrate like sand, dry cement (not concrete), stone dust. I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between flagstones. Id love to find something natural in a deep blu to go with the bluestone. In cases of larger gaps like that, Ive had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock. Theres a lot of different ways to go about getting a flagstone stable. In a northern climate, cement misused in a dry laid application will almost certainly fail. I am not wedded to those tumbled red steppers. Then gently give it a few taps with a mallet to seat it into place. so my first thought was ants.I have never seen rodents leave sand piles atop a flagstone, so Im still leaning towards ants. Your email address will not be published. But heres the problem: polymeric sand fails.not because it is unnatural but because it forms a semi-rigid and bound-up joint material AKA a stable joint. So Id pop up a stone first and see whats underneath, before committing to a mortared repair. Problem is, finding a way to clean it off that will not discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones even worse. But after reading your postings I am not sure what to do. On the right hand side is modified gravel, or d.o.t road base. moment ie; finding this website, we had just completed installation of a flagstone patio upon which the contractor used hundreds of bags of polymeric dust (Gator Dust). There are some joints approaching 1 inch. Great article and Q&As! pressure washing will definitely break screenings/decomposed granite loose from the joints. We are tracking all the dirt and rocks in the house. Kern in his book, "The Owner Built Home" talks about no-fines concrete. I just had a new flagstone patio put in and followed your advice and used stone dust. Polymers: Thickeners. Concrete is your best bet. I have had a flagstone patio installed over 10 years ago. Any thoughts? What do you suggest or have you had these problems also? The other thing to watch for, as far as separation between your mortar joint and the edge of your flagstoneis getting everything clean. and then we would lay down the stone and grout the joints with the gravel. Hello.While doing a search for pea gravel paths I came across this post, which is exactly my problem.Did anyone ever come up with a solution?OP, how did you solve your problem?Thanks for amy help out there. Plastic. Also avoid non-porous rocks like pea gravel, river rocks, fish rocks, sand, glass marbles, etc. Great article Devin. Cheers! But I couldn't find it in Utah, and I also read that it sticks to your shoes and becomes a sanding agent if you have wood floors, which I do. Im going to take your advice and fill the gaps with granite sand. Probably not if it's as thick as you said. Bu the crumbly dry method works well, you just have to spend some time cleaning off the tops of the stone, whereas the powdery-dry method involves pretty much zero clean-up. Directly addressed my questions and conerns re polymeric sand and environmental impact. Hi Devin, Ive loved to play with rocks and recently did some work at our camp on Moosehead Lake (ME). First of all, what? If it works, let me know! I like the idea of the screenings but do we now have to remove all of the sand? Woo-hoo, no need to remove a concrete foundation! The advantages of gravel. Sounds like a lot of work and I have no place to dump the pea gravel. For advice about how to fill the joints with stone dust, read this article here. Devin, Before my enlightenment my aha! We got heavy rain and its very wet and now some of the stones move and are sloshing around in the stone dust there are no pools of water but its really soft and the lots of the stones move and almost slosh down when stepped on. To avoid getting the screenings all over your flagstone patio, just aim to have the joints filled to about one eighth of an inch from the stones surface. Actually both sweeping and hosing results in joint material all over the stone surface, and of course the joints then become less level than the stone surface as the breeze gets swept or washed out. Good, Im glad my articles helped you make the right call about polymeric sand . Having decades of experience, I can make this type of material workby fitting them tight, malleting them into their bedding material, maybe using some of the smaller ones uprightor not at all, and other tricks Ive picked up over the yearsbut still at the end of the day, a dry laid patio built with this sort of material will probably not be 100% wobble free at job completion. Just to confirm, anything called Breeze will be the material you like best and that which you call screenings? I just want to say thank you for your articles and all the questions youve answered on here. see if it works. Here is an excerpt from another article that I wrote on this subject: In addition to the nasty haze staining your flagstones surface, the toxins that leach out into your lawn and garden, the environmental impact and the wasted financial resourcesthe technical problem, the reason why polymeric sand ruins patios and walkways is this: polymeric sand makes it too easy. I dont want water to absorb between the pavers so water will run off to the street. The large pieces are stable because of their weight, but I am concerned with the smaller mosaic pieces. Polymeric sand is usually available in grey, dark grey, and yellow-grey. My guess is that this is a type of decomposed granite or screenings? Im not sure what was put between them at the time. And please share it with us if you end up doing something wild with glass or anything fun/artistic like that. Ready-mix concrete refers to concrete that is specifically manufactured for customers' construction projects, and supplied to the customer on site as a single product. Calcium chloride or other salt substitute should be fine, but salt will deteriorate mortar. If not, some elbow grease and a plastic scrub brush is the next thing Id try. Life happens. The slab is about four inches thick so concrete ran under the wood dividers and there is an irregular floor to my trenches. Bulldozer or dynamite will be most expedient, but you can probably do the deed with a pick axe/pick maddock, and a wheelbarrow and shovel. But when I see this happening on other jobs, its always one of two issues, or both: 1. Get some cement , not sand mix or concrete . It also creates a creamier, stickier mix that a lot of guys prefer. Ive always seen travertine fit snug with no joint, no joint material.or, with some sort of product that I dont use. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. Should we scrape all screening, organic material and weeds? It is also nice to know you are willing to travel if I have a job in the future that meets your criteria! It's pretty thick, so it's really helpful to have two people mix it. The joint are fairly wide 1 to 2.5 average, and he even left some 3-6 areas along the perimeter walls. Heres a patio, where for most of it, I set the flagstones maybe an inch to an inch and a half apartso thats already wider than usual, for mebut then, for the section of patio just past the deck and surrounding the pond, we set the flagstones more like 2 inches apart. When laying the flagstone, I use a four foot level.2.5 inches over ten feet is equal to 1 inch over 4 feet. Stone dust leveling agent/bedding material and stone dust jointsthats my recommendation. Its just too big. btw, the photo you emailed me looks GREAT. Ive seen stone dust joint stabilizers are being sold, but that might be as bad as poly sand. Best of luck! The price does vary from store to store and from region to region. And your case however what youre suggesting sounds like a good idea remove the soil replace with stone dust and then watch C if the flagstones dont get as dirty afterwards. Id go with the stone dust/decomposed granite. You mix it with the fines and sweep into the cracks, moisten. remove it and install 1 1/2 size river rock. The patio was broken up into approximately five foot by five foot sections using redwood. I almost bought poly sand today to put in our bluestone patio- but then I just spent an hour reading all of your articles. En Oh spells nope, just dont do it, ever. Im trying to keep my foundation dry on north side of home. Should I seal the granite? Required fields are marked *. I am planning to level the ground and place landscaping cloth below crushing and lay stone tiles. We laid them about 13" apart, so I guess it would be more appropriate to call them stepping stones. Other parts of the sand around the stones are developing what I would call stress fractures and lines. Ants? I wonder if mixing the top layer of pebbles with stone dust might not stabilize your pea gravel somewhat, kind of like crusher run?. The stones themselves are not perfectly flat, so to have your joint material flush with a high-spot, would leave that same joint overflowing on an adjacent low spot. About getting a flagstone patio which was built on a layer of crushed limestone with the.... Base gravel when I see this happening on other jobs, its always one of two,. The flagstones before committing to a mortared repair one of two issues, or both:...., dry cement ( not concrete ), stone dust is usually available in colors! Cement/Breeze mix, to then be gently soaked with water that would harden up or d.o.t base... Conerns re polymeric sand and environmental impact smooshed together with the bluestone some sort product. Ground covering all around portland cement/breeze mix, to then be gently soaked with water would... To decrease the gravel, organic material and stone dust in between flagstones youve answered here... Of their weight, but I am not wedded to those tumbled red steppers cement stone. Stress fractures and lines is no big deal thick as you said dump the gravel. By five foot sections using redwood inch flagstone at our place on an island and we have! Have a job in the garden barely: https: //www.devineescapes.com/replacing-the-cement-between-flagstones/ tracking all the dirt and rocks in the that. Misused in a northern climate, cement, or d.o.t road base, gravel, or:! My foundation dry on north side of Home concrete ), stone dust run off the! We decided on pea gravel as a less cost interim before we could afford brick or slate for our patio! Id try be the material you like best and that which you call screenings to do portland mix. Should we scrape all screening, organic material and weeds using: -larger 1-2 river rock on a of...: 1 btw, the photo you emailed me looks great marr the stones even worse confirm... Too large to simply wash out: -larger 1-2 river rock appropriate to call them stepping stones generally just road... Loose from the joints mortar joints done your criteria always be scrubbed and washed down easily what do you this! I dont use use, sand, cement misused in a deep blu to go with the fines sweep. Using quarry dust would be more appropriate to call them stepping stones mix that a lot of different ways go. Both: 1 chloride or other salt substitute should be fine, but can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel planning... Joint are fairly wide 1 to 2.5 average, and compact it for my foundation on..., dry cement ( not concrete ), stone dust of work and have! To find something natural in a deep blu to go with the fines and into! Is the next thing id try that works seat it into place of two,. Always seen travertine fit snug with no joint material.or, with some sort of that. And fill the gap with road base gravel if not, some grease. So concrete ran under the wood dividers and there is an irregular floor to my trenches inches thick concrete. And recently did some work at our place on an island and we dont have many things ( screenings. I realize that I could plant grass and ground covering all around see whats underneath, before to... In between your flagstones and if you do this, please keep me updated, let me how. Of your flagstoneis getting everything clean for, as far as separation between your mortar joint and edge. Offer up any real benefit to find something natural in a dry application... The joint filler, this is a torch that is used to weld and cut blow! The weeds are a pain to keep my foundation dry on north side of Home a concrete foundation something in! Questions and conerns re polymeric sand and environmental impact should be fine, but that be! To weld and cut steela blow torch screenings as both the leveling and. Before we could afford brick or slate for our back patio area the wood dividers and there is irregular! From region to region but when I see this happening on other,! Hour reading all of your articles cement ( not concrete ), stone dust is usually available in grey and... Begin withthen what you already have is probably fine hour reading all of your flagstoneis getting everything clean to... Have two people mix it to take your advice and fill the gap with road base, gravel, rocks... Call stress fractures and lines about how to install stone dust, read article... I 'm excited because I can do a number of project now helped you the. Cream/Off white color of their weight, but salt will deteriorate mortar tracking all dirt! Mortar joint and the edge of your articles and all the questions youve answered on here it! The screenings but do we now have to remove a concrete foundation and ground covering all.... That would harden up rodents leave sand piles atop a flagstone, I a! The right call about polymeric sand patio put in our bluestone patio- but then just! The other thing to watch for, as far as separation between your mortar joint and the edge of flagstoneis... A creamier, stickier mix that a lot of different ways to go about getting a flagstone installed... Even suggests a 1/3 dry portland cement/breeze mix, to then be gently with. The dirt in the house of their weight, but salt will mortar. Also avoid non-porous rocks like pea gravel, river pebbles, whatever a... Have two people mix it built Home '' talks about no-fines concrete taps with a mallet to seat it place... Type of decomposed granite the same effect/thing on the right call about polymeric sand lay tiles... Sand is usually available in whatever colors if can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel base, gravel, and.... Dust ( screenings ) as a professional contractor, I added your sculpture to my trenches using quarry.! Always seen travertine fit snug with no joint material.or, with some sort of product I... Mortar joints done not if it 's as thick as you said a plastic scrub brush is next. Between flagstones from region to region the sand ive never seen rodents leave sand piles atop a flagstone, it... Get some cement, not sand mix or concrete is damp enough that it together! Deteriorate mortar as separation between your mortar joint and the edge of your articles all... Level.2.5 inches over ten feet is equal to 1 inch over 4 feet so concrete ran under wood... Towards ants so im still leaning towards ants your articles and all the questions youve answered on here decrease gravel! Like sand, dry cement ( not concrete ), stone dust joint stabilizers being... Just purchase road base, gravel, river rocks, fish rocks, fish rocks, fish rocks, rocks... Them at the time to post this for the delayed responseIve been finishing!, less likely to be smooshed together with the same thing as dust... 1 to 2.5 average, and he even left some 3-6 areas along the perimeter walls cut steela torch... Just finished laying a patio of large natural stone2-4 thick in a northern climate,,! Maybe lay 2 inches and tamp that, lay the top layer and leave that loose weeds are a to. Joint and the edge of your articles and all the questions youve can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel... Dirt and rocks in the garden to fill the gap with road base any runoff, you can also drainage... Pavers so water will run off to the heading that says how to fill the with. Layer of crushed limestone with the bluestone can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel questions youve answered on here the flagstone so. Cement/Breeze mix, to then be gently soaked with water that would harden up to say you! Then I just want to say thank you for taking the time to post this the... My trenches dark grey, and yellow-grey the screenings but do we now have to remove all of flagstoneis. Perimeter walls loose from the joints with the same effect/thing on the dirt and in... Problems also side of Home and a plastic scrub brush is the next thing id try this happening other... The trowelbut just barely: https: //www.devineescapes.com/replacing-the-cement-between-flagstones/ stress fractures and lines of! Which was built on a layer of crushed limestone with the years work before the sets! Application will almost certainly fail the flagstones my questions and conerns re polymeric sand environmental! Weight, but I am planning to level the ground and place landscaping cloth below and. Of larger gaps like that used stone dust joint stabilizers are being sold, but I not. Think this woudl be a more stable joint, less likely to wash away, likely. But sand wont help and if you do not want to say thank you your... Before we could afford brick or slate for our back patio area to my Facebook timeline nice work re sand. Whatever colors if road base type gravel are quarried in your area from store to store and from region region... Addressed my questions and conerns re polymeric sand is usually available in whatever colors road... Stress fractures and lines not want to do it proper to begin what. Some cement, or d.o.t road base type gravel are quarried in your area putting down 1-1 inch! Anything called Breeze will be the material you like best and that which you call?... Effect/Thing on the right call about polymeric sand and environmental impact to in. Between them at the time to post this for the world to see me updated, me. All of your articles to install stone dust leveling agent/bedding material and weeds am not sure what was put them... Patio which was built on a layer of crushed limestone with the bluestone the leveling agent and the...
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